Business contends with illegal 'aliens,' immigrants in a Ghost Town?

Anyone who supports a guest worker program is actually supporting a minimum wage of whatever the guest workers earn (much lower than the "ridiculously low Federal rate of $5.15").

OK, I'll confess to being the reader who requested the illegal immigration story. Sheldon, thank you, for writing it, and thanks for calling me "astute" I think.
I agree that the Ghost Town article was somewhat slanted or bias, but I don't think it was fiction. Maybe the events were exaggerated but even if they were, I still find this sudden, selective enforcement of the law disturbing.
We (U.S.) Americans like to promote our country as being fair & just. I don't believe that after years of NOT enforcing the immigration laws, we should suddenly crack down and start arresting & deporting people. Is that "fair" or "just"? Does our country need more negative publicity? Do we want to be seen as a country that separates children from their parents? I don't think so!!
Yes, illegal immigration IS a big problem that should be solved. We live under the constant threat of terrorism and we've see the damage that only a few determined terrorists can create. And I do agree that hourly wages are being held down, and that health care & costs are being affected. I could mention some more problems, but the list would be long.
What I find most frustrating is that the problem is not even being discussed in a rational manner by the mainstream media, or our political leaders. It's seem to me that only the extreme views are being considered. We allways hear from the extreme right guy yelling "seal the borders & kick them all out", and the extreme left guy yelling "they are only taking the jobs that Americans wont do". They call that "balanced" reporting. OK, I know some rational solutions that involve compromising have been discussed , but because we have become so politically polarized, we just can't seem to move on this issue, and many other important issues.
I also believe that these immigrants are influencing our economy in more ways than most people think. I'll write some more on this topic later.

I believe in justice,law and order.I believe in old glory and all it stands for. I expect truth and honor. I,believe a person, word is their bond and their only as good as their word.My Grandfather, could walk into the bank of my home town and barrow money just on his word. It's true this was several years ago. But Honor, truth, justice and freedom, don't go out of style.We, all chose,the way we live our lives. The illegal Aliens,chose to illegally cross our Border. They chose to stay and to have children here. They chosed to get health care and not pay for it.They chosed to get food stamps and welfare and in ever state,the question is ask,if your an American citizen, that is on the form. Thay committ fraud. They also chose to drive a auto. drunk and or with out license. They chooes to sale drugs and or to belong to ganges.They chose to committ murder and or rape and all the other crimes. We Americans, did not sent for them, they weren't invited. In fact, in 1986. We, were told by our wonderful Government,that it was Amnesty one time only.The Border was to be protected and secured The money was approved,a program was to be in place to keep up with them.Dose all this sound like a broken recording? None of it was done, and just what went with the money? Our young adults are fighting for America, for old glory and all that it stands for. While,we at home,Wont protect it from un invited guest. It time We stode up for our Country also.Our Justice sistem and Government is going to hell,in a hand basket. The law apply's to ever one not just some. There is no one above the law. I'm sarry if this dosen't sound fair. Its the same law that we Americans obey. I'm sarry for the children,but the parents,did this to them.The Mexican Gov. has known sense the treaty,in the 1800's,their people and our people,wasen't to cross the Border. Read the treaty. Also find out for your selves about Neoconservative, Ever one has heard it at less a dozen times or more. I was realy surprised.

Eliz, You need to calm down and think through some of your emotional outburst. And in particular your comments about crime et. al. Every legal immigrant saga began with poor people searching for a better life as is the case of our south of the border ILLEGAL immigrants (on that we agree) but you go way to far. And without writing another long story here, I'll summarize by reminding you Al Capone was in the U.S. legally!

This is such a vast and powerful subject I'm surprised that there was not more response. Perhaps that's indicative of how people just don't want to deal with it. The fact is people, we better deal with it and soon. We need a real solution. The worlds greatest security barrier between California and Mexico is not a realistic solution. Besides, after four decades of working to tear down international barriers, who's stupid idea was it to put up a new one?

John Kennedy, Henry Kissinger, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton all worked to the point of exhaustion in the pursuit of tearing down walls. Who do we think we are to say a new one should be constructed? And that, at the price of our reputation as a free and tolerant nation.

I'll bypass the dynamics of businesses hiring illegals. That's a very big subject and I feel it's seperate from the central issue. Suffice it to say I'm discouraged by the practice. I think it cheats all of us. I feel it's exploitation on it's surface. I think it's a crime... I really do. Businesses which hire illegals should be held accountable but it's only a symptom of the larger problem.

I've worked with Mexicans, in many different capacities. Overall I like them. They impress me as a people. Those who have become naturalized citizens share the same goals as we all do. They want to have steady jobs, raise their families, own their homes, build some savings and live in a safe and secure environment. With the obvious exceptions, they are just like me and I am like them.

When they choose to cross our borders illegally then they are criminals. That's all there is too it. It matters not what the reasons are. It's a border, there's a law. It's pretty straight forward. If you pity them to such a degree that you think they should walk in scot free, then I pity YOU and maybe you should go to their side of the border. Immigration laws are there for a reason. They were enacted as controls. They're not sanctions on individuals. They protect our safety, our health and our economy. They are to be taken seriously. Treat them with respect and high regard.

So is there a solution to this problem? I like to think so. I think the time is ripe for change. I propose a big one. If I had control of the situation and I could affect it without anyone knowing, I'd make one very big change. Mexico would become state number 51.

By drawing Mexico into the union (with their consent of course), the issue of illegal immigration from there becomes suddenly moot. The Mexican people would suddenly become instant beneficiaries of everything they're looking for. They'd be freely united with their families. They'd be on our tax rolls rather than a burden to them. They'd have access to our educational system just as we do. They'd have access to our health care just as we do. The biggest difference would be that they'd be paying our payroll taxes... just as we do.

A whole class of criminals would be wiped off the planet. Predjudices and class distinctions would be allowed to fade. Border patrol would quickly retrain to assist homeland security. The war on drugs would enter a new and brighter era. A massive pouring of cash into what used to be the Mexican economy would create economic benefits untold as we did what was needed to equalize the currency exchange. Banks would be freed from exchanging dollars for pesos. Never mind the effects on Cuba and Columbia. They can figure it out for themselves.

The last angle I'll touch on this is the language of choice issue. We all know english will never be replaced as our "operational" text. The suggestion is ludicrous in itself. And to name english as "official" is a waste of a referendum vote. My suggestion is not easy and it wouldn't be very simple, but it's workable and realistic and I think it would be very beneficial in the long run. I feel we should seek to become a fully bilingual nation with english as the operational text and spanish as a synthesized text to our daily lives. People who were fleuntly bilingual would garner a premimu value in the work force. It would take about a half generation before it became fully workable but we're already started anyway. Let's put our schools to the task.

There you have it now. Phase one of Gary's plan to liberate Mexico (again). It would be a full decade before we could allow free flow across the "border". It sure would be easier to tell the good guys from the bad guys out in the desert. We'd probably save the lives of a few border patrol also.

Give it some thought. Talk to some legislators. Find out if it's a realistic proposition. Let me know what you find out.


Blessings to ALL,

Gary

Sheldon,
If you have specific criticisms of the points made by Eliz, you need to state them. Otherwise we cannot have a reasoned debate on the issue. For example, you accuse Eliz of an emotional outburst, but fail to support your accusation.
--- Bruce Blodgett

I can't speak for Sheldon, but I would object to Eliz's description of illegal immigrants as drunk drivers, drug dealers, gang members, muderers & rapists.

I'm not a regular here. I just happened on the page via my regular searching for articles on this and related topics (I do a search on H-1B and H1b, guest-worker, guest-workers every couple days, and one on "illegal aliens" every couple weeks).

Needless to say, we've been discussing these issues elsewhere, in Monster, on various Yahoo! groups, in usenet, for years.

It comes down to a record flood of immigration -- both legal and illegal -- over the last 26 years, to depressed opportunity and compensation for those on the margins -- blacks, science and tech workers without degrees, older tech workers, younger tech workers, poor tech workers who cannot relocate themselves or continue to invest in new systems and books while unemployed... to abuse of guest-workers in the forms of low pay and suppression of complaint, to the shift from full-time permanent employment to temporary and part time gigs, cuts in benefits, etc. that have come from body shopping.

But the executives certainly love that it has allowed them to shift more income from production workers into their own pockets.

I'm sure if we looked at every Blogging Stock company close enough we would find that most if not all of them at least indirectly hire "illegals".
Wal-Mart has already been fined because one of their sub-contractors hired them. Most big corporations hire sub-contractors and the government either hires these companies or buys their products. Should they all be held accountable the way Wal-Mart was? If so, maybe we better start thinking about granting amnesty to ourselves. So even if we didn't invite them here, businesses here hire them and our government (for the most part) has allways looked the other way. Explain how at least 8 million illegals got here without the co-operation of our government, businesses, & most of us citizens.
The selective enforcement solution that seems to be going on now doesn't sound like "justice for all" to me, it sounds more like "justice for some". And enforcing laws that have been ignored for at least 20 years doesn't sound like justice either. I know alot of people say that amnesty fail once before, so it shouldn't be tried again, but I think amnesty for the immigrants & the businesses that hired them has to be included in any realistic solution to this problem.