I was told by the partner in the law firm I worked for . . .that women didn't need to have more money on their pay checks because women have men to pay their bills.

I asked him how of his girlfriends were there in his life that HE paid their rent, car payments, insurance, groceries, wardrobes, etc . . he glared at me and finally stated "none".

I also told him that our cost of education and costs of living are the same as any male and in many cases, cost MORE due to the fact many industries overcharge women for products and services (ie cars, car repair) . . that shook him up so much he slammed his office door. Let alone the thousands of dollars it costs to be dressed in a law office. The men come in with the same suit day after day, if a woman did that, she'd have a pink slip on her desk.

I got my scheduled/promised raise.....8 months after it was originally due via this argument after several months of inquiring....which he usually replied "that's all women ever think about...
"M-O-N-E-Y"...this a trust fund baby turned attorney who only came to his office to get away from the brood in his mansion.

There is not a single product or service in this nation provided to a woman at a discount so what is it about this nation that assumes a person can live on less than a male counterpart and in most cases be charged more for necessities?

Women don't choose jobs which have one of the three "D's" Dirty, Difficult, or Dangerous. Also, the jobs involving another D "Driving" are overwhelmingly filled by men. If you don't believe me on that one, look at any truck on the road.

In my experience, if women apply for any of those jobs, they're hired almost automatically. Then they quit later because they don't like the job, or how they're treated, and take a lower paying job.

Women want to be lawyers, accountants, real estate agents, financial planners, and anything to do with fashion, film, video or television. They wind up working as restaurant servers, day care employees, customer service reps, and receptionist type positions. They don't want anything too dirty or too technical, like maintaining computers, wiring or electronics, or working construction, oilfield or mining jobs.

How about this hypothesis:
Women are less assertive than men as a group. I wonder what the correlation between assertive behavior and compensation is. And,if women become too assertive than they reach a point of diminishing returns that would also affect certain situations and professions. Furthermore women understand that if they become too assertive it negatively impacts social situations because many men resent it, affording them less opportunity in finding a mate or companion. Compensation is based on many things, not just productivity or grades, or diplomas. An assertive man is more likely to be admired than an assertive woman, this affects compensation too.

Very simple -- as Big Bigelow says, "Men are Better than Women. Period."

Women earn less than men for one simple reason...sexism. Our rent/mortgage payments are the same, we pay the same for utilities, and we pay the same for milk at the grocery store -- yet, even with the same education (or as the study points out BETTER scores) women still earn less.

One would think by 2007 this might have changed. That men would realise it's not in their best interest for women to earn less. Think about it, if you are married or living with a woman her financial contribution to the "partnership" is diminished. Think of how much more you could BOTH have if she only earned as much as you did.

Men would be well served to join the fight for equal pay for women.

BAC

I recently was promoted to a management position of a financial institution. The previous male managers were considered branch presidents but since a women is now in the position, it has been downgraded to branch manager and paid 56% of what the last two male "presidents" made. I spoke with HR and requested to see the job descriptions of the two different positions and what justified such a cut in pay. I could understand better if the goals were different or requirements were decreased but the job is exactly the same except I am much more capable of handling the daily operations unlike the previous managers since as men they did not have to work their way up. I have seriously considered suing the company for discremenation since this is not an isolated incident within the company but I also have to look at what is best for my future career because I have kids to raise as well. The only comfort I get from my new position is the fact I enjoy what I do and like helping my customers. I was told by a very wealthy man which I truly respect that some of the worst deals he has made in his life have turned out to be some of the most profitable in his career. I hold on to that and hope to see the day that I make a difference in this company for women and that we will see the day that we are treated as equals. LT in TX

I would like to add that I think a woman who works twice as hard as a man does to prove herself,is making a big ,big mistake, first of all women are used in many many ways, so she is just showing fear when she works twice as hard as the man, they will use that to continue using women,no one of either gender should have to work harder than the other's on the same job,or even pretty simalar job.

The real reason women get less, is a deliberate plot. Money is power,men want to have and control women, they want women to have to depend a lot on them for money. That way her self esteem, and even confidence in herself is low, she will get it(more money,from the bedroom, kitchen,obaying him,and catering to him.There are more women than men and If women would put as much time into bettering things for women in general,and bond more together(Men sure do)as they do mirror mirror on the wall,and stand up for themselves this would never have been all these years. You,especially women, have to teath people how to treat them. Men think women are benieth them and the women buy's into it in many ways.as though she wants herself and all other women held down. This I am sure will be denied, but it's true.

A man and woman working right next to each other, doing the same job, in the same location, with equal seniority, BY LAW, earn the same pay. Differences come from the choices women make.

And let us not forget the, "hidden economy." Do waitresses report all of their tips. Are attractive women tipped at higher rates than their less physically attractive counter-parts.

Face some facts, women. At the workplace, you are usually your own worst enemies.

Hmmmmm.....maybe that's why some men are becoming women! But the male that's going to turn into a female locally has been fired from his job as city manager. I see no reason for that because if he did the job well for many years as a male......he can do it as a female.

You think that's bad. When you get older and on SS women even thow they work all there lives get less then men do too. Or if your Disabled men still get more.

The main reason that women are paid less than men is biology. Women generally quit the workforce or take less-demanding jobs to raise children (the future workforce). A mother can only work 8-10 hours/day, since she has to pick up her children before daycare closes. If her children are sick, she has to miss work and stay home with them. In both these cases, she can bring her laptop home with her and work, but since it is not "facetime" it isn't valued. Finally, as her children get older and want to do outside activities, she has to leave work to take them to soccer, cheerleading, dance, baseball, football or whatever practice. A father who leaves work to take his child to soccer or stay home with a sick child is a hero; a mother employee is viewed as "not dedicated to her job".
If a man took off several years during his career, his earnings would be the same as a woman, and his career would be on the same trajectory.

In the future, when the grandparents get older, the bulk of the care will fall to the women - wife, daughter, sister-in-law, daughter-in-law, etc. Just think, who is going to take care of you and visit you in the nursing home?

Flexible workhours, telecommuting, "mommy-track job" and other schedule manipulations does help keep women in the workforce. A lot of women leave the workforce and become entrepreneurs during the child-bearing years, because although working for yourself means working 24 hours a day, you gain the flexibility needed to work and raise children.

Education does help make up lost career traction. I earned my MBA-Finance, graduating with honors (Beta Gamma Sigma), when my children were 2-4 years old, and I was working full-time also. I am still earning 80% of what a man makes, but it is a darn good 80%.

Overall, the biggest detriment of being a working mother is what you miss in your children's lives. Your children adjust to you not being there and hate your job when you can only go on "one field trip and one classroom visit each year", rather than the other mom who volunteers at the school and is always there for field trips, class shows, etc. But such is life and economics.

MEN ARE SMARTER THAN WOMEN AND DO THINGS BETTER> WE'VE BEEN TELLING THEM THAT FOR YEARS> SO NOW HERES THE PROOF>

The key fact is that your basic supposition is false - when adjusted by a long list of factors (what the statisticians call "control variables")
women are paid statistically the same as men.
Of course, it is politically correct to assert otherwise, but it's just not so.
Another way of putting it is that when men and women have the same position, with the same educational background and degrees earned, with the same number of hours worked,with the same length of experience,with the same record of quantifiable success, etc., etc. -- total compensation (cash earnings plus dollar value of benefits)is the same.
Sorry, but those are the facts. As the saying goes, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

It's a power struggle.
If women are paid the same as men, they could become totally independent. Too many men know this, and strive to keep their wives or girlfriends from being independent. If a man isn't needed for his financial support, then the only reason for a woman to keep him around is his loving support, his caring support, his intelligent conversation and his skill in the sack. Alas, from the stories I've heard from my girlfriends over the years, there are few men around who can keep up the non-financial aspects of a marriage or relationship over the course of time. If a woman has money, why should she stay in a relationship that provides so little of the non-financial aspects?
Women earn less because men know that indepentent women don't need them, and that lessens their power over them. And men seem to think that the lack of power over at least someone is frightening. Keep a woman dependent, and you have power over her.
Of course, salaries / wages for both men and women are merely power struggles within a corporation or company. The highest paid job in the universe ought to be that of First Grade Teacher. No CEO, no President, no General, no Salesman, no other individual job is worth more to us as individuals or as a country. And I am NOT a teacher. And, by the by, the highest non-paid job should be Parent!

I find it quite amusing that the men are arguing on the facts and the women are arguing on "emotional values."

IF the woman has all the, "family obligations" that constitutes a "personal/family" issue. It does not make for a LOGICAL argument.

Haven't read the book, but from the reviews, some of you female posters might want to read, "Tripping The Prom Queen." It helps explain why some women I know have a workplace policy of not talking when one of their female coworkers enters the breakroom. When she comes in, one of the women always says,"Remember the rules, girls." I feel sorry for so many female workers. Not because they have to "put up with the men," but because they have to put up with EACH OTHER.

Leave the dramas at home and see if you don't advance faster.

Women don't go for dirty or dangerous jobs? Well, then, I guess the Army was neither, huh? Tell that to my ears. I swear I'm still digging Iraqi sand out of them from 1991...

Women don't like technical jobs? My middle name should have been "apart" as in "I took it apart...fixed it AND put it back together again". If women don't like technical jobs and numbers, then WHY did I gravitate to science after I left the military? There are an awful lot of numbers and equations and technical things in my chosen field. Don't think I go putting purple sparkly stickers all over them to make it "all better".

I can't be THAT unusual in not being all feminine and girly and weak and touchy-feely and stuff. At least I know that in my job I don't get paid less than my male counterparts, and couldn't be hired at a lower starting pay (for the same job). That's one of the advantages of working for the state university.

I'm not surprised, though, that overall women are paid lower wages just out of college, even in identical jobs (e.g a male civil engineer vs. a female civil engineer). I don't think it's right, and I DO think it's discrimination.

How many times must this subject of men's salaries vs women's salaries be discussed. It is as old as time itself. Employers, even in 2007, believe that a women in the workplace is supported by a man and doesn't need as much money as a man. Let's face it. Yes, a man does need more money. He needs it to buy more beer, more sports tickets, bigger and fancier cars and to evade paying child support. Men still believe that all women want child support for is to punish the fathers for being men. So not true. That child comes first in all aspects of his life. So men before you decide that women don't really need the money find out what women's financial needs really are every month. Especially when they are a single parent.
Thanks for listening.

My father raised me with a strong work ethnic, and education as a vital component of self-sufficiency. He told me that he saw so many women widowed or divorced and left to toil in bottom-level jobs because they had not invested the time and funds to be able to support themselves and their family. My brother was always supported and encouraged to succeed compared to me--but that's life. He is a doctor. Me, I'm afraid of the sight of blood.

It has not been so easy... but I'm happy that I put myself through law school (15 year loan repaid!) and have been able to change lives for the better and to have others cite my articles in the Federal Court of Appeals for various circuits. I've helped a lot of the helpless, and found it rewarding. I've also worked out of economic necessity. When I could've married a wealthier spouse, due to the self-sufficiency issue, I always picked the person I liked the best instead-- regardless of earnings. It's been a long, challenging experience, but empowering compared to my mother for example, being told right out, you are a woman, so we can't hire you, or we'll hire you for less, or you are too ambitious, or you'll get pregnant, etc.

Women in advanced positions were given work, but then, for example, sexual harassment, like want to have an affair w/ a married man, get your beaver over here, etc. very inappropriate behavior, but back in the early 80's as a professional woman, you wanted the job reference, so you just ignored it.


A friend sent in two virtually identical resumes to an employer. One was female, one was male. The female was sent a rejection letter. The male was invited for an interview. This was in 1982

In 1984, a supervisor admitted that the women were being paid less because they could get away with it compared to the men. That the women were secretly being also required to be the most thin, attractive, and well-dressed, and some of superior qualifications were rejected
based on attractiveness as compared to men. The reason was that the women, being women, even with advanced degrees would simply have less jobs available so they'd take the lowest positions and accept not being promoted compared to the men. Further to lower morale, women who did obtain higher positions either had been inappropriate, or if they had not, were accused of being inappropriate. The men weren't even if spotted with hookers, with people they supervised, etc.

In the mid-80's if a women would be insinuated to be having an affair, and comments would be made about looks and career options back then, an unattractive woman was hired by one firm as a better choice, as she'd have no other options.

A large business would transfer men in and make them executives, but successful women with proven numbers in the field, would be demoted, get a pay cut, and a cubicle... not stock, a raise and a corner office.

At one time at a convention, a top executive said the wives are like employees helping their husbands for free. The women employees were aghast. Then, after an awkward moment, he added, uh, I guess we have women employees too and they might have a husband who might help them.

Some of us, now in our 30's and 40's are now CEO's and successful published authors, lawyers, business people, but it's been a very
different life for us than our mothers. Most of us did not ever marry
a man wealthy enough for us to even take more than a few weeks off after maternity leave, and a lot of us worked a lot of extra hours all the time. A lot of us supported the family, our exes and our children, and get no child support, even paid settlements. You never hear about us, as we are the silent, secret society!

A lot of men are so very threatened by intelligent, accomplished women.
Too bad. It is all about control and power. They can't make an argument, like all women have an IQ under 100, and all men have an IQ over 140, so they say, "We are better." Yadda Yadda Yadda! Waste of Space. You can't simplify such a complex issue!

I do think that it is also about risk taking. I felt like it was over the cliff in being an entrepreneur. That is one difference. I do agree that dangerous jobs can pay more, and less women apply for those jobs. Sometimes women don't see themselves as capable of a higher position even if they are more qualified. That's a self-esteem and confidence issue-- however, it is also based on societal pressures and past or present bias creating the idea that a female can't want the higher position, and that the lower positions are for women and/or weak men.
I did have the exact corporate position as men who were being paid thousands more for the exact job, with the same performance or lower.
When I accidentally found out because a paycheck was left showing,
I went up to Human Resources, and I cited the Equal Pay act, and I was given a $2,000 a year raise within two weeks.

It's also true that if a family has limited incomes, life is exhausting! You can't hire out domestic jobs, and no one can quit due to benefits and basic housing, job security, etc. Often one spouse lacks the med. benefits or doesn't have a regular income (i.e. commission only sales).

Women make up half of the population and half of the work force. That means they have half of the "good jobs." Yet, men are expected to fill the "provider" roll.

Add to that, the preference shown to females in the education system (from elementary school to college admissions) and it is easy to see that the deck is actually stacked against the American MALE.

"Parity" is all women should hope for, yet they have more and STILL aren't happy.