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It is uncanny that GM would have their hands out looking for a bail out, when, they just opened a new GM plant in Russia. Check it out on P.A18, Nov 8, 2008 Washington Post. (Medvedev Welcomes GM Plant). Prior to that read the front page and notice that they posted a -2.54 BILLION dollar 3rd Qtr loss. Remember he also telephoned the President elect to congratulate him. Wonder if the new plant came into the conversation ??

Britain used to have a vibrant domestic auto industry. Now, all of its major nameplates are foreign owned. Tata owns Jaguar. VW owns Bentley. BMW owns Rolls-Royce and Mini. The list goes on.

Do we want the U.S. to have no domestic auto brands? Our electronics industry is dominated by foreign brands, inlcuding Sony, Samsun, Nokia, and the like.

The one thing I get tired of hearing is about crappy GM cars. I have a '98 Olds Intrigue that is still fun to drive and has given me little trouble. My two issues are a cracked sway bar, due to my running into a very large pothole, and 3 dead fuel injectors thanks to Shell's winter blend in northeastern Illinois. Once I switched to BP, I've had no troubles.

My wife drives an '02 Pontiac Aztek. Yes, it's ugly, but the interior is actually very nice. It has standard features that weren't even options on my Intrigue, and the cargo space is about 1/3rd larger than a Jeep Grand Cherokee, with much better mileage than the Jeep.

Are the next cars coming from GM? You bet, if GM is still around. I want a Caddy CTS wagon, and my wife wants a Saab 9-3 turbo.

From what I have read, Washington is obligated to either bail out the auto makers up front, or the government is on the hook for billions in pension fund obligations. Heads, we loose... tails we loose.

How about bailing me out, I would like to have $22,000 so I don't have too worry about my debts. Being on a fixed income after working 50 years, I wished I had
worked for the unions making 60/75 K a year and being paid 85/90 % of my salary
when laid off. Communist doctrine first class or socialist if i ever heard it.

Not all Americans are employed with the Big 3 and not all Americans buy cars from the Big 3.

So why should these people foot the bill?

This talk of bailout is not the answer. Don't bail out Ford and GM. bail out the industry.
Make it more attractive for Americans to buy Amercian cars.
Give every car buyer who buys Ford or Gm and extra 1500 rebate on top of the Manufacturers incentives. Don't make it a tax break. Make it immediately redeemable at the dealership. We can't put tarrifs on Honda and Toyota but we can sure do this. To bad for all the Americans working for Honda and Toyota but desperate times call for desperate measures and let's face it, Toyota and Honda aren't going anywhere we'll just be leveling the playing field so to speak.
The factories will get healthy real fast because consumers will start buying American cars, the dealers will start selling more cars and the factories will have to build more cars which is what makes them money in the first place.
Now when Ford and GM have more cash flow to work with. let the high paid execs figure out how to make it long term. If they fail, then so be it but I gaurantee they will fail if they're just given money to use at their own discretion. Give the consumer the bailout not the factory.

I'M TOTALLY IN FAVER OF BAILING OUT THE AUTO INDUSTRY. ONLY, THE AMERICAN AUTO CO. ACTUALY, MOST OF THE LARGE CORP. HAVE A HEAVY FORIENG INVESTERS AND THE PROFITS FROM THESE CORPORATION DO NOT STAY IN THE USA. LOTS OF THE MONEY GOES TO THE FORIENG COUNTRIES. LETS SUPPORT AMERICAN MADE GOODS INSTEAD OF BUYING GOODS MADE IN FORIENG COUNTRY. LET ME ASK ALL THE PEOPLE WHO'RE AGAINST SUPPORTING THE GM, FORD, CHRYSLER FIRST WHY THEN, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WENT TO A BOX STORE SUCH AS, SEARS, KMART, WALLY WORLD, TARGET, AND EVEN FOOD MARKET AND DID NOT SEE GOODS UP TO 85%OF TOYS MADE IN CHINA AND COUNTLES OTHER PRODUCT. LETS SUPPORT THESE THREE CAMPANIES WHITH THE PURCHESING OF THE PRODUCT THEY MAKE. LET THEM HAVE A LOAN OF THE BAILOUT MONEY WHITH THE CONDITION THAT THEY DO NOT GIVE OVER ZEALUS BONUS TO THE HIGHER MANAGEMENT AND THAT THEY'RE HELD RESPONSIABLE FOR THE DECISIONS THEY MAKE. ALSO,50% OF THE MONEY LOANED IS USED FOR AUTO THAT GET BATTER MILES PER GALLON OF GAS.

10 Reasons why we should help the American Automotive Industry


1. It would be one in many decisive step toward putting America on the forefront of the Green revolution -- "Do we really want to depend on Japan, Korea, and Germany (and soon China) for the future of our cars and related technology or do we want it grown here in the USA?" for our generation the new Green Energy revolution will be equivalent to the space race of the 60s. Whoever gets there first will be a power player in the world economy. And guess what the American Auto Industry got there first and will be able to regain that spot if we help them through this difficult time. By 2010 the GM Volt will roll off the assembly line. This will be the first fully electric production vehicle produced. Talk about Toyota all you want, the truth of the matter is that Toyota’s answer to the Volt is a plug in Prius. That vehicle will be able to travel 7 miles on a charge vs. the Chevy Volt’s 40 miles on a charge. That vehicle will be gas base vs. the Volt being a true electric car. Beside that US auto manufactures are working on Plug in hybrid, Clean diesels and hydrogen vehicles.

2. They do produce cars that American want to drive –If GM is the largest auto company in America and there vehicle sale are large than every other auto companies than by definition they are producing cars people want to buy. Just a short time ago that was the SUV. The American appetite for the SUV did not change until gas prices became unbearable for most consumer. That did not happen until price where well over 2.50 per gallon. And that happened in 2007. US auto companies change gear to pick-up the production of their smaller car lines in 2008. And in 2009, dealer showrooms will boast about 140 models with highway fuel economy ratings of more than 30 miles per gallon. That's an increase of 25 percent over the number of 30 mpg products offered in 2008. Model year 2009 vehicles will include 25 hybrid and eight clean diesel models, as well as autos employing fuel-efficient technologies like continuously variable transmissions and cylinder deactivation. By 2010 the GM Volt will roll off the assembly line. This will be the first fully electric production vehicle produced. Soon to be followed by plug in hybrids and on the horizon hydrogen vehicles (which are already being driven by selected consumers around the country).

3. We are Americans and if we are going to succeed in this global economy we need to stick together – Ask yourself in these hard economic times would Japan allow Toyota to fail, would Germany allow Volkswagen? More importantly given the lessons of the financial meltdown, we need to return our economy to one that’s based on producing real products not financial paper pushing. Sure, we should have bailed out textiles before it all went overseas. We should have slowed the loss of electronics. But because we didn't save those industries doesn't mean we shouldn't now save the American auto industry--particularly given the lesson of the financial collapse. We need to save the auto industry because cars are one of the few things we make anymore--and we need to focus our economic recovery on the things we make rather than on the bubbles we finance.

4. They Saved Us not to very long ago – We owe the Auto Industry some help. They helped save this country in World War II. If we loose our leading Manufacturing base do you really want to rely on Japan and Germany to make our tanks and planes. I’m sure this would be wonderful news for Toyota and Volkswagen but I’m not so sure I would want my country’s security dependent on their good will toward us.


5. It is very likely that our country will make money by helping the US auto industry- In 1980 we guaranteed $1.5 billion of private loans to Chrysler. Chrysler paid back the loans with interest and the US government made $400 million on the deal.

6. If they went under, the job losses would touch every State in the union -- Nearly 3 million jobs would be lost in the first year alone – with another 2.5 million to follow over the next two years. 1 out of every 10 people employed in America today is tired to services that is related to the U.S. auto industry. These people would see job cuts as well.


7. American Standard of living would be adversely affected -- Personal income in the United States would drop by more than $150.7 billion in the first year. “To put GM failing into perspective, in 1998 during a GM strike that lasted for 3 months, the aggregate US GDP dropped by 1/3rd”. Think about that, one company being on strike for only 3 month cut our Gross Domestic Product by a third. The government standing back helped cause the Great Depression. Did we not learn the lessons so painfully taught to our grandparents.

8. The US tax base would see substantial erosion -- The cost to local, state, and federal governments could reach $156.4 billion over three years in lost taxes, and unemployment and health care assistance. This affects every American not just those tied to the auto industry. Meanwhile the most of the profits of foreign-brand cars assembled or imported in the United States go back to their home countries. Yes, foreign companies pay tax’s on their operation here in the USA, the bulk of there operations feed their country’s tax base not ours.


9. Domestic automobile production would more than likely fall to zero – even by international producers, due to supplier bankruptcies -- “If GM goes down, it will take down companies like Lear and Johnson Controls,” That will shut Ford down, and it would shut down production at Toyota and Honda,” John Wolkonowicz, an analyst for Global Insight, told Automotive News. “They would go down like dominoes.”

10. “We're lending $120 billion to an insurance company. There's $700 billion set aside for banks and others whose leaders enriched themselves while ruining their companies and our economy. The leaders in the US auto industry have made their mistakes--plenty of them--but they didn't enrich themselves beyond decency as those other executives did. Today's economic problems, brought on by subprime mortgages, credit default swaps, a credit freeze and a stock market collapse, were caused by those other folks not the US auto industry”.

So we are all clear the government isnt bailing anyone out we are. I am not certain how we can even consider adding this to the back of the middle class and small businesses in this country. Take a look at the recent banking bailout there are hundreds of exemptions to the taxes that will be levied for that plan and believe me the middle class and small businesses aren't exempt. However Nascar is? Go figure maybe since they are off the hook on that they can bail out the American auto industry. I really cant believe as a so called world power we swallow this kind of crap. When these bail outs force the american middle class and small businesses onto the welfare rolls who do you think is going to bail us out? How about China they own a significant portion of our national debt. Why don't we get our heads out of rear ends and ask the government to give technical support to the employees of the american auto industry in order to complete an employee buy out. Maybe they will get smart and boot the labor unions, manufacture a competitive affordable product and actually feel a sense of pride at the end of the day. Personally I don't know how many people take pride in saying I am on welfare and frankly if this bailout goes through that is exactly what the employees and owners of the American industry will be saying.

Searching for the answers, What should I myself do?

I was just a kid back in 79, I was in the auto industry, lost my job, chewed up and spit out and fell in the cracks for about 10 years. Man it was tough, had a lot to learn about counting on that industry. I was wondering If we all just got real creative and made a bunch of money and started buying automobiles again, would all this wash. What would it really take considering no other help?

I dont know why your asking for my URL but you can link it if you want, its for bikers and biz. its www.hogntz.com

Here is another URL for Natalie
http://www.natalieb.homestead.com

This is kool, thanks mark