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You uneducated dumb a**. You sound like the media. Chevrolet makes the MOST
vehicles that get 30 MPG. The Tahoe is #1 in it's class for MPG. I drive an Avalanche and I'm getting 19 mpg with it filled with my son's bat bags,golf clubs and everything else a family needs. What am I supposed to drive a Prius?
Do you know the #1 selling vehicle in China is a BUICK? And why? QUALITY!

GM is in trouble yes but it's not because of poor vehicles. It's the UAW and the media who are as stupid as you are!

Mike,

You are commenting about facts not in evidence. I did not mention anything at all about "poor vehicles" or mileage. However, you are more than welcome to vent. Just wish folks would read...before they call other folks uneducated...

Yours truly

Let the oil companies buy the automakers???? I can just see the CAFE discussions now. I am sure it will lead to the developement of many alternate fuel vehicles.
The oil co's are already munipulating the market. Have you seen the Nov. auto sales compared to May? Civic-67%, Corolla-59%, Camry - 55%, Ford F150 -11%. The 1 thru 5 top selling vehicles have flipped and the Ford F150 is on top again. Amazing how reductions in the price of gas can change a country's attitude. This is exactly what the oil co's did in the 70's. Raise the price from .38 to 2.00 and then lower it to 1.25 so everyone thinks they are getting a bargain.
When did you realize that gas at 2.25 a gallon was cheap? Answer: after you paid 4.50 for it.

Do you want electric vehicles? Have the electric providers take over the auto makers. Everyone looks after their own.

I can't believe no one is talking about the governments part in the failure of the auto industry. If they had not failed to set higher CAFE standards, Detroit would be making more fuel efficient cars. Then there was the massive tax break for buying big SUV's and pickups. No one has clean hands here.

Of course, no one can legally force the oil industry to "bailout" the auto industry. Then again, if the oil companies were willing to assume partial, or full, control ... a partnership, they certainly have deep enough pockets.
If the economy does not improve it is a mute point ... just like a Govt. bailout.
If no one can afford new vehicles, what is the point of producing what will not be purchased?
How would you propose making this deal attractive to potential investors?

Better ?: The newspaper/media companies are asking for millions in a bailout......
They are based upon a bloated, dinosaurlike structure that these days are based on more opinion then fact...let them die and everyone that lives in america might recieve fact and not constant bias.

Sure gm and ford in particular were in a haze through the 80's-90's but they are building vehicles that are on par with the japanese and germans, and if they were not so protectionist (ala currency manipulation, import tax, nationalized healthcare) america without that handicap would be producing world class vehicles in every field.

Oh and the myth that toyota/honda are saving the world, one car at a time is sooo 2006.
GM and Ford are on par with fuel milage and emissions effiecency, stop beating a dead horse and report what is facy instead of talking out of your...

You have got to be kidding right?...they will end up as stockholders of the automakers...creating a conflict of interest..what will stop them from forcing auto makers from making vehicles with even worse mpg in order to sell more gas( don't tell me the govt will force them to since big oil is bolstering the politicians election campaigns with contributions if not giving them money outright) .....this is the most idiotic thing I ever heard of

Can anyone point out the benefits of bailing out the Airlines?
The service has deteriorated.
The employees act as though they are superior.
They imprison us on runways.
Threaten us will arrest.
They sure seem grateful ... do they not?
Will the auto industry follow suit?
What a bunch of bull.
Bail the little guys out ... tell the Kings to take care of themselves.
Why force one industry into bailing out another?
Moronic.
Just for the record ... Mute, cannot speak ... moot, pointless.
It is pointless to bailout a company with little or no future.
Divide the amount proposed by those who pay Taxes. Send the Tax payers the money.
At least then we will have some benefit from the increased National Debt.
Have the Oil Companies bailout the American public ... this is who they have harmed.

Sheldon:
I disagree. I worked for one of them. I know better. Let's get the facts straight.
The request for funding was in the form of a LOAN/AVAILABLE LOAN STATUS.
Loans get repaid, much in the same manner that Chrysler did, and the taxpayer actually made money!
These circumstances are unique and the big 3 are in this predicament because of lack of foresight by the Congressional panels that regulate the banking industry, not because they built the wrong product. That happened in 1972 and they suffered greatly for it. This time around they were building a competitive vehicle(s) and were confronted with a mass deterioration of wealth and credit and skyrocketing fuel prices. People stop buying cars. The big 3 are not alone as this is fast becoming a world wide problem and the EU is addressing similar situations on their turf. The ONLY major producer not effected (so far) is Renault, but if sales continue to drop, they are going to be part of the "crowd" before long.
There is an old argument about making vehicles that are fuel efficient/small. Fuel efficiency and size DO go together. There is a math formula called "tapley pull" in which horse power/aerodynamics/weight are all combined to determine approx. top speed and a potential fuel consumption at given speed. There are also many other mechanical applications that perform similar functions. In short, they know what they are building. They also know what the public is willing to buy. There is little point in building a car that you cannot sell and they have to bow to the public's wishes. Case in point - the 1934 Chrysler airflow - bigger disaster than the Edsel. The 62 Datsun Fairlady was no big seller either. Every maker out there has one or more that they would rather forget.
The Corvair was a good seller until Ralph deemed it unsafe at any speed. In truth, most of it's danger was from the driver as it was rear engined and the U.S. drivers tended to oversteer as they were used to rear wheel drive.
So much for all the history and trivia - if the auto industry goes default - it is a sure bet they WE will have a MAJOR and long lasting DEPRESSION. I guarantee it.
I have been a pessimist on this whole mess since Dec. 07 and have predicted most of the fallout with a decent degree of accuracy. It is going to get worse - a lot worse in 2009. Check world events, recall what I said about nationalism? There are so many lit fuses out there that it is not up for speculation.

Darin -- yes, partially kidding, I thought it was interesting and as is evident a provocative idea -- I am all about ideas and debate on this site.

Will -- you're the best, thank you for your always thorough commentary -- you always improve the dialogue.

I think it's an idea that could work, but I don't think the oil companies should be pressured into buying something they don't want. One of the big problems here is the constant perception that big oil is always out to screw us, gouge us etc. I mentioned in another comment that we should be commending them, not constantly bashing them, They are not asking for tax payer bailouts like the finacials, and auto's. We should start looking at them as a business, that has to compete and function like any other business. Like I have said many times before, we have NO problem at all with prices rising, as long as it benefits us, but when prices rise that don't benefit us, we start talking about windfall profits, gouging etc.

it is so convenient to blame the uaw and its members. the sad reality is that most of you couldn't weld a straight bead to save your life, but earn a paycheck for work that any fifth grader could perform. what is wrong with a skilled craftsperson earning a decent wage to support their family? the rest of the story centers on market forces - many of which are irrational - that dictate the flow of capital and decide the fate of innocent non-participants.

If you really want to help our economy folks, buy American products if you can find them. The Jap car companies don't give a crap about the USA. This is only a spring board for their profits, as less than 10% of their stock holders are American. Would'd you really rather have a Buick??

Sorry Sheldon, but while Mike' s reply is filled with flaming he still has a point. Anyone with even basic understanding of financial or company history knows that companies acquiring businesses in unrelated industries is usually a recipe for disaster.
Need an example? Just look at Schlumberger's acquiring of Fairchild Semiconductor during the last big oil boom.
Schlumberger was making money hand over fist in oil field services (sound familar?) So they bought Fairchild thinking they could turn it around by simply throwing money at it.
End result: Eventual sale and write off once the price of oil started dropping.
Need more recent examples? Just look at any of the conglomerates in the late 90's who decided "diversification" was no longer sexy (mainly because their stocks were not running with the market). So the leadership decided they needed to simplify their corporate structures and focus on industries they were leaders in.
Oil companies buying and owning car companies would just be more of the same. As the oil management would have to learn about making and selling cars. Something they have no experience with doing.

E.J.

At last the conversation is open to new ideas. Not that the idea on the table is a good one. Why don't we just hand the fox the keys to the chicken house. The idea on Solar energy companies taking a hand makes more sense as far as the environment is concerned. Fuel cells are in the plans but so far those need more development. The next to hit the streets from most makers involve lithium batteries, but they last a meer three years and will require a lease to buy a new one and what do you do with the used one? Good ideas are only good if the end game is concidered. (Think, Nuclear power plants.)
Lets look at this with new bigger eyes and take a lesson from the race to the moon. That was the only time the U.S. government did something that really paid off $ for this country. Think of all the money made, the jobs created and the prestige enjoyed from the needed developments to make that dream come true. We still enjoy most of the tecnological advancements that came from the space program.
No one ever used to want the opinion of the line workers, but believe it or not General Motors actually does these days. That being said, here is my 'far out' idea. (I won't go into how the traitors in the Senate cast hundreds of billions to their Financial cohorts, and balk at a L O A N to the the Auto industry,but their day will come when they are retired at the next election. Unfortuantly, hitting the streets with them will be 5 million Real workers that Produced a real product and spent their paychecks here in the U.S.A.) But, I digress.
Let us keep the industry and help them put out the next generation of excelent autos. No telling when we will need the capabilities to make what we have to have to fight the next Hitler or Tojo bent on world domination.
Let General Motors live and grow into Galactic Motors and really open up space for humans to explore. Please don't fool yourselves into thinking the Government has the snap to think Big like it used to. They couldn't run a lemonade stand without loosing tens of billions of dollars trying. They darn sure can't run G.M. or anything else. Galactic Motors...hmmm, I like the sound of that.

The airlines have had to restructure without bailouts or sympathy from the government or citizens. Why should the auto companies be any different. Let them go into Chapter 11. If these ceos and employees are so committed, they should survive. Make a sacrifice first auto industry!

EJ,

Thank you for you comments.

I happen to agree with you for the most part.

However, Mikes comment makes no reference to the M&A issue. He speaks of car quality and mileage.

The problem is there is too much anti american sentiment in the media.
We should do all we can to support U S industries against losing ground to foreigners like the Japanese auto companies , Chinese manufactuers and Arab oil. What do you think is going to happen when we give up the auto insustry to Japanese, we have everything manufactured in China and we send our oil money to the Arabs?
They will own the United States and our standard of living will decrease to thier 3d world level. We will be working for wages as cheap as the Chinese, the Japs will monopolize the auto industry and we will pay dearly. The Arabs will buy up our business and try to impose thier 16th
Century ideals on Americans. I say kick out the Japs, buy American, keep jobs and bussinesses here. Drill for all the oil we need and become energy independent, keep the money here in the states.
We just gave the Europeans $600 billion to bail out thier countries and banks. But you don't read that in paper. No one is outraged about that. Now we need to save Americans and American industry and some people want to drive our economy into depression by letting them go into bankruptcy. What is wrong with this picture? We are selling out America to communists, Arab arogance, and the Japanese that steal our technology and use it against us. WAKE UP AMERICANS.

I have to agree 100% with Mr. William linblads comments. He writes well. To offer the Auto Industry a loan, at a fair rate, is going in the right direction. The auto makers are forced into paying higher than normal rates to obtain operating capital. It is not a bail out. It is a loan, that has to be repaid. Once we get beyond the greed syndrome that has caused the problem from the beginning, all will right itself. It starts with every individual. Treat others, as you yourself would want to be treated. Be honest and fair.
We need the jobs the auto industry provides. We also desparetly need to create more jobs for Americans. President elect Obama is right to propose the infrastructure repair. It will not cost the American taxpayer a dime. The jobs created will foster creation of even more jobs. America can right itself by simply providing jobs, good paying jobs, and we as consumers need to support those jobs. Buying billions of goods from oversea's promoted by the greedy, has caused our problem. Honest CEO's, not willing to bow to the will of the greedy shareholders, can provide growth for all. A fair return to investors, and good jobs for Americans. The bottom line is not always the best choice. America has been chasing the shortest path to riches. It never works. America was built on hard work and ethics, fairness and honesty. We need to return to those virtues. All of us do.

The oil companies robbed all of us and now you are going to reward them with buying the Big 3 for $0.10 on the dollar? The oil companies should have a choice: Either pay the Big 3 and the tax payers back for the oil scam to $147 a barrel or be hung for treason! I cannot beleive Americans are willing to screw each other for the profit of the same people who are screwing you!